Pain

R = Rayson the teacher, S = First student, S2 = Second student

Question: Is your continued ability to experience pain an aid to your growth and development at your stage
in the mansion worlds and in your work here on the planet with us mortals?

Answer: I do not care for pain anymore than you do, and yet Father does not waste. He does not create anything without purpose. I believe that the pain that I still experience is partly a reminder that I am still part animal in my nature and that it serves as a continued reminder to me that I have very, very far to go. It is said that once the journey to Paradise has been completed, there is no more pain as we know it. Whether being in the presence of God obliterates the pain or you have already achieved a condition in which you do not any longer experience pain prior to your audience with Father is not clear to me, but I can tell you that I believe I sense less pain now than when I was a material being on my planet of origin.

Question: Rayson, are we talking about physical pain or emotional pain, and does everybody experience
that when they leave this planet?

R: Do you mean physical death? (Yes.) For some, death is not painful at all. Do you wish to rephrase the question, or would you like me to elaborate on death itself?

S2: I believe the question was whether or not you felt pain after you left this life, at the next stage of
existence. Is that correct?

Question: Yes. And is it physical or emotional pain we're talking about?

Answer: Most of the pain that you experience in your present state is a composite of physical discomfort
which is contributed to by emotional anguish based on frustration of animal drives and spirit longing. As you grow in your spiritual development, the former will decrease in their contribution and the latter will increase proportionately. However, spirit longing is a different sort of feeling than physical pain as you know it. Have you not ever had the sense of your own incompleteness? (S: Many times.) That is something like spiritual pain or longing. It can be very uncomfortable, can it not? (Yes.) And yet you would not characterize it as the same thing as, for example, suffering a cut or a broken bone, would you?

S: True. Right.

R: What do you think is the difference?

S: I'm not sure how to answer that. It seems to me one's more emotional, and the other's more physical.

R: You think the spiritual pain is physical?

S: Well, ok, one's more spiritual and one's more physical then.

R: Does anyone else have a comment?

S2: Well, I would think that the physical pain is carried to the brain through the nervous system, and the emotional pain is not located in any particular place, but is carried to the conscience by the psyche
perhaps, something of that nature.

R: And the spiritual?

S2: The Bible talks about spiritual groanings and longings which I think that we all have. We do not identify that as pain. Perhaps it is pain, but I have not thought of it as being pain. It's simply an unfulfilled, deep longing, a hunger for -

Question: Are both physical and emotional pain rooted with spiritual undertones? I remember reading of
Jesus and His comments to afflicted people experiencing pain, both emotional and physical. Many times their faith would be the healing factor of overcoming both emotional and physical pains and longings.

Answer: Your faith will help not only in subduing the discomfort you experience from the physical and the mental but will also help greatly to allay the discomfort of spiritual longings. When I speak of pain myself, I speak more of my own sense of imperfection, my imperfection, for I am in company with perfect creatures who do not know this feeling that we speak of and, like yourselves, I compare myself to them, as you would compare to another.

Question: Is there an element of sadness then that is part of the sense of pain, a sadness at one's own imperfection?

Answer: Yes, you could say that. And yet I have had enough mota lessons to know logically that it is a wonderful endowment to be imperfect.

Question: Rayson, is pain a positive thing in the sense that it contributes to the striving for perfection?

Answer: Some say that is the reason for its existence. Animals certainly experience pain and you know that we are evolved from animal. I can honestly say that I do not fully understand all of God's reasoning for endowing us with pain, but He is perfect, and His plan is perfect. So it is placed with a perfect motive, and what you suggest may very well be part of that motive.

Question: I have been under the impression that physical pain was the device by which we're notified that
something is physically wrong so we can correct it. Is spiritual pain the device by which we're notified of things that are spiritually wrong, so we can correct them?

Answer: Yes, but it is more than that, for you need not have acted in error in order to experience spiritual pain. Your action at any given time may be in accord with God's wishes, and yet you may still have pain.

Question: Is an example of that the feeling that Jesus had before the crisis at Capernaum when He isolated
Himself from His apostles and was apparently in great agony before He voluntarily submitted Himself to the embarrassment, I should say, of having His own people reject Him?

Answer: He was also torn by a great turmoil related to the trial of Lucifer, for His life here on Earth as you know was a key argument presented to the Ancients of Days against the rebuttals of Lucifer in his own defense. So Jesus, the man, at the time - He was fully aware of His complete identity and purpose -
experienced far, far more pain than any mortal on this planet has ever been subjected to, or most likely could ever withstand, and yet remained alive physically.

S: I'm amazed. I didn't realize that the life of Jesus had been presented to the court of the Ancients of Days in the trial of Lucifer, Gabriel vs Lucifer. That is an amazing concept. I certainly agree with you. I see now how it had to be, but I hadn't even thought of that before.

R: Yes, it is somewhat different from your own legal practice.

S: It's difficult for us, with our limited knowledge of Jesus' life from the writings we have on our planet, to picture fully all the things that He was doing in the latter part of His life on earth. He was helping to govern the planet, helping to deal with the rebellion, and still carrying out His Father's mission here to help us understand Father and Father to understand us. It's a marvel that He could do it all.

R: Yes, it is one of the wonderful mysteries of the cosmos. As Earth evolves and its peoples advance in their evolution, there will be yet more revelations. It is likely that when this planet enters Light and Life, a day by day, almost hour-by-hour account, of the life of Jesus will be available to all for review.

S: I'm anxious to review it. 

Daniel: I wish to talk about this subject of pain, its purpose and its value. Remember that pain is a built-in feedback mechanism in all living animal life whereby the organism is given the signal that there is danger, there is a problem that needs to be addressed. The purpose of pain is never torture nor punishment but in its original intention it is a signal to arouse the organism to correct a problem which the pain is addressing. Inasmuch as you are fully physical creatures, these pains which are experienced therefore are telling you that there needs to be changes made to address the cause. Your defenses are such that, at first, it is easy to deny the reality of the pain to yourselves, to minimize it.

This is unfortunately in error, for when you do not respond with appropriate action to pain, damage will occur. I could cite many examples, but this principle is rather obvious. There is, of course, physical pain pure and simple, which has been discussed this evening. Then there is other kinds of pain: the pain of fear, the pain of guilt, the pain of anxiety, the pain of loss, the pain of failure, and the pain of despair. I am referring in these comments, while primarily focusing on physical pain, to the reality of mental and emotional pain as well.  

My first point, my friends, is that pain is your friend. Pain is not your enemy. It comes to bring you a reality check - to present where you need to make changes, whether it be a surgical procedure, whether it be a change in diet, a lifestyle change, a renunciation of bad habits, or the adoption of better ones; whatever may be appropriate, pain is your friend.  

My second point is to say that you need to accept the reality of the message that the pain brings you rather than employ denial and minimization. It is difficult for healthy people to be stricken with accidental events or finding themselves a prey to disease. This difficulty is experienced in the process of aging because your culture is afraid of death and does not realize fully the benefits that accepting the changes that are inevitable in your body can bring, as well as the wisdom that can come with the accumulation of years.  

The third point that I wish to make is that, having recognized pain as a friend, having listened seriously to its warnings, that you then take the necessary action. Gather all information that you can, and then, after gathering your information, bring it into your stillness and ask your Indwelling Spirit for guidance. Ask and you shall receive. I will promise you this. And then, when you have heard, and when you have a sense of what is to be done, gird up your loins, pull up your pants, put on your coats or whatever, and go out and do what needs to be done.  

And you will benefit greatly, for first of all you will alleviate the pain, unless it is an impossible situation, of course, and you will also gain valuable experience - that most useful domain called patience. In a culture
that "wants it NOW, wants it yesterday, wants it all" you lack maturity because you are childish in this respect. Therefore, the patience that you gain enables you to see that God is at work patiently in the evolution of the Supreme and that the magnificent completion of His destiny, which includes us all, will be worth the long wait of eons and eons of slow perfection being obtained step by step, moment by moment.  

My friends, you do not fear death because you know it is a passageway to your next status as Morontia Progressors. You have in your faith and knowledge such reservoirs of strength that you could literally supply a great number of thirsty and hungry souls with the morsels of life, with the drink of eternity. I know it is your desire to do this, and you are already in this process. Know that patience is one of your shortfalls, for you haven't lived the number of years on this planet that mortals live on planets such as the one where I came from, where in the space of several hundred years great wisdom is obtained. While at this point in your history nothing can be done to change this fact, if you will take maximum benefits from your experiences with pain, with frustration, with grief, pain in all its nuances, you will make great progress.  

Virginia: I can remember hearing "Give 'til it hurts" which certainly would suggest pain, and the statement, "There is no gain without pain." And I know in physical therapy and some other procedures that probably most of us have taken part in (visits to the chiropractor, etc.) there is a certain amount of pain and it can be productive. I'm not sure why I'm thinking out loud here, but emotional pain that has been so destructive in past and present relations is a little more difficult to pinpoint and find healing for. And I know we're talking here mostly about physical, you did mention these, but any other comments on emotional or pain that comes through relationships would be appreciated.

Daniel: I will make a comment briefly, Virginia. It appears that part of you at least is questioning the value of pain. Is that correct?

Virginia: I'm sure I question the value of some pain. Physically we know it's an alert, and physical pain is something that's necessary for therapy to push those muscles and tendons back to normal. But I think emotional pain that is caused by others to individuals whether they be innocent or not, that's the pain that perhaps would not be respected or wanted.  

Daniel: You see, the pain you refer to has an origin in a physical circumstance. Children witnessing violence between their parents internalize it and feel empathically the same kind of pain or similar pain that the victim or the parties in combat feel. They, also, assume responsibility for the conflict, for those fights can often be over discipline. The purpose of children experiencing pain in this kind of setting is still beneficent, for it is intended to protect them from harm, to lead them away from the possible physical contact that could occur and to follow the flight instincts which are intuitive in the human animal body. The pain initially then, I'm trying to say, has a good purpose - protection.  

What causes injury is the interpretation of the events which result in a child's self-esteem being lowered: if they assume responsibility for the fighting, if they take the blame; if they feel responsible to stop the fighting, and because they are only children, powerless to do so, and take upon them that guilt as well. They may conclude that the world is a dangerous place and that they must keep to themselves, for no other human can be trusted and no one will truly care for them. Then they are most of all to be pitied.  

You see then it is the interpretation that leads to the damage in self-esteem. For the interpretation can lead to a lifelong experience of guilt and shame until they discover that they are not truly at fault, that they could have done nothing more than they did, that their escape was the right thing to do. And for the other case, the person who concludes that the world is his enemy, he or she has the greatest need of all to encounter a friendly universe. My purpose in this lengthy example is to clarify for you where the problem lies in emotional pain so that it can be dealt with and released.

Virginia: I think interpretation is always the most difficult because that has something to do with misinterpreting other's motives.  

Daniel: And a child is not capable of understanding.

Virginia: Right. It's much more difficult for them to separate their own emotions from the event.

Bob: I'm curious about the pain that accompanies terminal illness. What is the role or value of those situations to the person who is dying and to those who are friends and associates and have to see all this
pain a person is trying to deal with?

Aaron: Let us look at the role with a more general overview detached from the circumstance. Pain in and of itself is neutral, meaning it does not favor one for another. Physical pain is a signal of the body being stretched either to its limits or beyond its limits. Therefore it is inescapable without utilizing preventative or diminishing measures to reduce the effects of pain upon the person. There is no particular purpose for the
pain itself to exist of a physical nature beyond what it represents within the body. A personality has choices to make regarding any situation that occurs which has influence upon them and truly it comes down to choice of how one will react to circumstances affecting them. So pain, although neutral, provides a platform for a personality to react and it serves a purpose in that the personality may choose how they will be affected or how they will respond to these influences. Believe me when I say that there is no particular pleasure taken in witnessing a person debilitated by pain.

There is no initial purpose for the creation of pain within a personality. Only when pain does exist, when it has arisen, is there an opportunity for a personality to react. This is no different from any other circumstance within your life, be it a fortunate occurrence or an unfortunate occurrence, you will react in some manner to any influence. Pain is simply one instance. 

As far as the emotional impact of witnessing one debilitated by pain that you hold dear, again as a result of this neutral happening, these personalities are influenced in some manner causing them to reflect and make choices regarding how this will impact them. The Jesusonian method is to, in all ways possible, react positively toward any circumstance that comes before you. To the extent that personality can react positively when faced with adverse situations will they find the benefit of a spiritual nature. This does not necessarily mean that to act in some way negatively diminishes the status of the personality, for there is great mercy accorded to all concerned in these circumstances. Let us say in some sense these situations are an opportunity for deep personal growth which comes through such conflict and struggle. And while many of these situations create scars of a lasting nature, this in no way diminishes the fact that the opportunity for growth and perspective was present and existing in the circumstance, in any circumstance. 

Ham: In support of Daniel and Aaron's treatises on the subject, pain in this mortal existence, be it physical pain or mental/emotional pain, is indeed a neutral phenomenon. It is often beneficial if one can achieve the jump in semantics to perceive pain as a stimulus or a catalyst to change. It is often when a person is most in pain that he or she will finally reach out and acknowledge their needs and their truest desires.

Pain may also be beneficial on this level in terms of interconnectedness and connectivity between personalities. You may have noticed during tonight's sharing that those persons who had experienced similar episodes of pain or discomfort in the past connected immediately on an emotional level with those who were describing current pain.  And in this way, personalities developing on this rather primitive evolutionary planet are more likely to be empathetic and sympathetic with another's situation.

On the morontial level this also occurs, but it is in a much different framework and difficult to describe. But you might be interested to know that the huge amphitheaters that we use as stadiums, as you would refer to them, are much like you would perceive of as a movie except that you feel along with the "players" every emotion, every feeling, every hurt, every desire as they feel it.  

One final note is that pain is occasionally purposeless and this type of pain occurs when one experiences so much internal anxiety, grief and resistance to change that this emotional pain actually somaticizes and
manifests as physical pain. And this can occur when a person is dying because of many regrets or feelings of guilt or shame or simply an unwillingness or fear of leaving the corporeal being for what is as yet
unknown to you. 

Virginia:  I can think of people who have died in pain but in peace. And others who have died in pain with tremendous fear are certainly more expressive of their pain, great hostility and anger. That's some very interesting things to think about.